Police out of line
The police who tasered the journalism student at University of Florida looked like they were trigger happy. The kid apparently was asking lots of questions of John Kerry during the forum and wouldn't go merrily off into the night. There are dozens of people like that -- once they get the mike, they go off on their own tirades. I've been to several presentations where a member of the audience goes off on a tangent instead of asking a question. Should we call the police on them? Should we taser them too?
I can't understand how five, six, seven cops couldn't control some student.
I can't understand how five, six, seven cops couldn't control some student.
posted by Ana Veciana-Suarez at 8:32 AM
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the youtube video shows at least 6 officers on top of the guy WHEN he's tasered.
I have no idea why 6 people chosen at random would need to taser someone at that point - if they're unarmed .
Hard case to decide.
Civil disobedience has its place, but this wasn't it.
And a cop doesn't have to get hurt before the taser comes legitimately into play. As Jack Nicholson says in "The Shining" all it takes is "a few extra foot pounds of energy per second, per second" and there goes the, neck, back, knee, jaw, eye, tooth, and maybe the career.
And the dude does seem kind like a professional agitator, and was big, strong, and resisting fairly aggressively.
Still, when the dude was on the ground and said, "If you let me go, I'll walk out of here" that might have been a good time to just let the dude go. That calm verbal offer is gonna get a lot of play in the taser lawsuit.
I cried when I watched the video. He was begging to know what he had done. Not only his cries pierced my heart but the cries of the young woman begging to know why they were hurting him and what he had done. All this with no response from the policemen. I think it was totally uncalled for. What ever happened to freedom of speech? Does John Kerry instruct his body guards to apply force if he is asked questions that make him uncomfortable?
I can tell you this right here, that cop is going to be relieved of duty for excessive force because he was a calmly speaking and not antagonistic in his comments at all.
Bye, bye pension, bye,bye police Dept. and bye bye credibility as a memeber of the law enforcemnet community.
Honestly, I hope he sues their butt off.
Another case of pig brutality. The rest of the people have gotten involved. This sort of thing happened during the Vietnam War protests all the time.
Folks 9 officers alone in Florida have been killed in 2007. Not including the over 100 in the entire country. Your nonsense in these statement is why this country is in such turmoil. He failed to comply with the officers commands, He resisted arrest, and he could be a decoy to take the attention away from secret service and police. If a officer states stop resisting then stop. A taser is a non-lethal of weapon of choice subdue a subject.
Since when has campus security been equipped with taser guns? The cost of tuition is spiraling out of reach for many and I can't imagine that adding security guards equipped with tasers is decreasing the operating budget of the university going forward.
the issue isnt about the fact that he resisted arrest. His 1st ammendment rights were being taken away from him, on a SCHOOL CAMPUS. Given an oppurtunity to ask someone of John Kerry's importance to society, a question, or two, or three... Wouldn't you like to just get all you could off your chest? This is OUR country, not the GOVERNMENTS. WE THE PEOPLE, not WE THE PIGS, WE THE POLITICIANS, WE THE MASS MEDIA... WE ARE THE PEOPLE!
Whats wrong here is those of you who are making an excuse for the actions taken by the University and Police. YOU are the corruption, YOU are the sheep who follow every word of the neo-con's and their attempts to topple our ability to THINK FOR OURSELVES.
I attend the University of Florida from 1999-2003. During my freshman year I was beaten up and arrested for something as minor as a bicycle infraction. I rode my bicycle through a stop sign at Newhall and Union and received a traffic citation. I had a few choice words with the officer, "You have a thankless job.” and carried on my way. Apparently the officer was not satisfied with his disruption of my peaceful activities on campus and followed me to my class at Little Hall. Just before entering my class the officer can up from behind me and grabbed my arm, demanding that I go downstairs with him. I asked for what reason. It took two minutes of pleading for a reason of why I was being detained, before he explain to me that after I left the first traffic incident, I committed another violation by riding my bike with no hands on the handle bars. At this time I made a foolish mistake of exercising my 1st amendment rights, by telling the officer what a poor abuse of his authority he was exercising. This got me beaten up and arrested within minutes. Later investigation of the officer showed that he had more written complaints filed against him then any other officer at UPD and his former job before he became a UPD officer was a Port O Potty cleanup maintenance man.
To add some icing on the cake, just last Saturday, I was kicked out of the Florida vs. Tennessee game for standing on the bleacher seats in front of me along with the hundreds of other screaming Gator fans after we scored the defensive touchdown in the 3rd qtr. My experiences and the shared experiences I have heard from UPD have all been horror stories. I am sure there are a few good officers out there but I have yet to meet one.
THE PROBLEM IS THIS SHITTY GOVERMENT AND ALL THE LITTLE PIGS FOLLOWING THE FOOT STEPS....THIS IS THE COUNTRY OF FREEDOOM......IF I SAY "ONLY SAY I WANT TO NUKE SOMEONE, I WILL BE ARRESTED." JUST BY SAYING SOMETHING AND NOT TAKING ACTION...SO WHERE IS THE FREEDOOM...UP BUSH'S ASS
This is Another example of why Police, sometimes (Hello! I say "Sometimes") are hated by people, and when someone of them is killed they show their "poor guy" face on TV.
Where are we? Cuba? The Soviet union? We are in the United States, where people has the freedom of speech and this guy exercised it with good manners and respect for Senator Kerry. Someone should teach that to Police when they teach them how to use the teasers.
Now, Did Sen. Kerry showed up in jail to see how this guy was? I don't think so...
Uh, did anybody watch the video? He is clearly resisting arrest. The Cop tells him that if he doesn't comply he will get tasered, and the kid still doesn't comply.
His comments weren't criminal, but when the UPD asked him to leave, his reaction was.
If someone were to resist arrest in a similar fashion say after receiving a parking ticket, no one would have a problem with the taser. But it appears that bloggers can't put the politics aside for 45 seconds....
you see after watching this video the questions as to why cops get shoot was just answered....
All these kids joining the force need more training as to how to handle situations....These are kids that do not know how to respond to situations...These kids and too old farts need more training, and more sivillian knowledge...if not they will end up another statistic..
'another dead cop'
He was never handcuffed... That's why the Cops used the taser. When someone is acting crazy and won't let the cops put handcuffs on him, he likely to get tasered.
If the student pulled out a gun or hurt someone, y'all are going to be blaming the cops for not doing anything....
I agree with the last comment. Leave the politics out of the discussion.... If some is resisting arrest, force has to be taken. It doesn't matter why he is resisting arrest.
After watching the video I have realized our government isn't about the people for the people, it is about what our elected officials want us to hear. People we need to take back our government by electing people who will listen. This young man wanted to ask his questions and leave. He was hyped up, but when they cut him off, things got out of control.
This isn't about him getting out of control. They didn't read him his rights. They didn't say what was the problem. They didn't try to resolve the situation. They the government escalated the situation. IF he were allowed to speak his mind and let it go, things would have been fine.
He suffered because they didn't want to hear him. They shut him down, angered him and many others. We need to elect people who will listen to us!
Thank you.
Since the 11:30 poster is going to drag down the US government over an incident with a couple campus cops and an idiotic student. I will post this again.
PLEASE READ THIS - http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/17/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-forum/
Read the account of the guy who was in the forum and will tell you what the cameras didn't capture.
It has upset me to read the different news agency's take on this story. Many try to make it out that it is all Andrew Meyer's fault and that he deserved the treatment he received. The young man was only asking questions. So what if he may have appeared passionate to some. He was doing nothing wrong. I would have reacted the same way Andrew did if police started to drag me out of anyroom without good reason. Shame on them. And shame on the many reporters who slanted their stories against Andrew - whatever happened to just reporting the facts? Signed - Florida retired mother of USA Marine.
It is a good thing that he was not Black or a taser would have been the least of his worries. Acting like that, he would have surely been shot.
Ironically, yesterday was Constitution Day.
Why did not Senator Kerry defend the right of the student to speak? Why did Kerry not stop the police from violating the student's rights.
Tell you what, it won't be long before Kerry and others like him are dargged away by the police.
If Senators do not defend the rights of the citizens who elect them, well, then, the Senators have also lost their rights.
God help us all.
WHAT DID HE DO WRONG??? I think the cops were WAY out of line...Why didn't anybody help him??? Why didn't the Senator stop them....that's how much of a piece of crap this government is...
So I went to the John Kerry town hall forum this morning trying to get students registered to vote. I run a student government organization called Chomp the Vote. Anyway I went inside to watch the event. Senator Kerry took the podium and began delivering a speech about the Middle East, Iraq, dimplomacy, etc. Anyway, after he was done, a university ambassador asked Kerry a few premade questions. Once that was over, Senator Kerry announced he would take questions from the students. There were two
microphones placed on each side of the aisle. One on my side and the other on Andrew Meyer’s side. Senator Kerry began answering the student’s questions from each aisle. Eventually it was announced that there would only be a few more questions answered. Since Meyer and I were both in the back of each line, it did not seem likely that our questions would be answered.
However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student’s question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!” Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.” The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying “what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!” The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the
police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student’s question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).
Meyer approached the microphone and began to talk about a book he had which stated that Kerry won the 2004 election because of disenfranchisement of black voters and faulty voter machines that produced “Bush” as the winner. He then posed another question about why President Bush had not been impeached. “President Clinton was impeached because of a blowjob, why not Bush?”. The third and strangest question he posed to Senator Kerry was asking him if he was part of the skull and bones society with Bush at
Yale. Meyer’s mic cut off after that, probably because he had mentioned the word “blowjob”. The cops grabbed him, but Meyer was able to get away several times. Eventually more cops were brought in to help subdue Meyer. Meyer continued to resist arrest, scream, curse; however he was enventually subdued by about six cops up around the entrance. As he is on the ground, he is told several times to put his hands around his back. He is also warned that he will be tasered if he does not comply. Eventually he is tasered twice. The video does not show whether he complied or not.
Senator Kerry was trying to answer his question to the audience, mostly the one about faulty voter machines. I am a die hard conservative Republican but I do respect Senator Kerry for trying to soothe the situation as best he could and trying not to escalate the situation. He DID intervene by letting the student at least present his question. I never received an opportunity to ask my question, but when Senator Kerry ended the show after the Meyer incident, he did come off stage to shake hands and give autographs. At that point, I was able to ask him my question, shake his hand, and get a autograph at the same time. Now why couldn’t Andrew Meyer do that?
I don’t know if this is relevant or not, but Andrew Meyer is a former sports writer for the school newspaper The Alligator. In his columns, he has been known to make ridiculous statements in order to gain attention for himself. Was today a publicity stunt?
UF student Tyler Antar
I'm so glad they are finally tasering people who don't act civil. Hey, you want to protest and do what he did? do it! But after you're done and you're asked to leave, you have no right to continue to be a nuissance to the others who are there and want to listen to the Senator. This is so not a free speach issue, it's a disorderly conduct issue, and folks there are just too many people out there who don't know how to behave.
Hmmm lets see...false arrest, using an illegal taser, perhaps excessive force, lack of sensitivity training on how to handle emotional behavior...it could go on. I think the security team and university were ill prepared. Come on...when is there not a time when someone like this student does not turn up to a forum, especially one of this stature? They should have been prepared to handle this knowing someone was going to get on their soap box and agitate the speaker. Hey, Kerry should have known what he was getting into as well. Doubt he even took the time to find out if the kid as alright. This kid and OJ may want to get the same lawyer, they may need it!
Did any of you people even see the video? I did and I saw nothing calm or cooperative about this guy (Andrew). I saw a very aggitated and defiant man. Maybe it's time to put yourself in the officers position.
I love your blog, and the way that you write
Let me assure as a 15 year law enforecment veteran, 1 man can most definately injure or hurt any one of 6 people trying to hand cuff him. Once a police Offcier advises you "you are UNDER ARREST", all your grand standing and assumed civil liberties take a second chair to the safety of the officer. Officers aren't paid to be a punching bag or to otherwise be injured when they're acting in the best interest of the public
I cant believe that the president of UF actually said and I quote " Civil Discorse is what we are all about" Why not just invite the country to have a riot and burnthe city down too. Impeach the UF president IMO
It looked like the 6 officers surrounding him had him down before he was tasered. Just watching the video, it seemed unnecessary. Do the police not have handcuffs? Also, according to the news report he was only at the mike for 1:30 minutes. Last week at the Hernando County Commissioners meeting regarding the budget, over 500 people attended, many exceeded their time limit, and no one was hauled off or tasered, including those who criticized the commissioners
The problem is people do not have the right to voice their opinion in this country anymore w/o facing some sort of backlash. It is not often you get to talk to someone of Kerry's stature face to face. I too have alot of questions for the whole U.S. gov't. So what may seem as tirade could be considered an outcry by a concerned citizen that wants to know why the general population is lied to so much by the people that they are supposed to trust and protect them.
I believe there must have been a reason for the Trigger happy/tazer crazy Flordia University Police and there actions here.
The closest to an accurate conclusion drawing from the video is either something AT HOME was wrong in one or two of the officers life (i.e. the officer with the grin as he looked at the camera; I'm suspecting he hasn't had a girlfriend {or boyfriend if he's gay} in quite a while).
The other possibility is that as the man asking the question mentioned Secret Society SKULL n Bones, it changed one officers reaction from 'remove this man peacfully' to 'take this man down so the unknown plan behind the Skull n Bones is followed through with'?
Hasn't everyone seen the History channels documentery on Secret Societies!
Please spread peace, however much survial of the fittest thrives.
Bring down police who chose wrong over right!
I am disgusted with the people that were cheering while he was getting removed, arrested, tasered.
lets look at this for a minute. Meyer was told by police he had to stop his disturbance of this event he refused. Meyer was then escorted by police and began yelling and jumping up and down creating more of a disturnace. When he was finally brought down he was seen and heard screaming don't taser me which means he was told by police he would be tasered if he did not comply with there orders. He chose not to comply so he got tasered. The police did not escalate this incident nor did they do anything wrong. Meyer could have followed there lawful order and there would have been no problem. Meyer chose his fate. Why should a police officer get hurt because Meyer refused to comply. Before you cry police brutality walk a mile in there shoes.
I'm not sure what's scarier:
UF COLLEGE students applauding when free speech was silenced.
The police state that we've created out of overblown fear of living.
That people are passively allowing our basic rights to be trampled on.
Or Kerry's lame support for the excessive use of force.
Violent crime is up, yet where do you see massive police response? Maintaining "order" at public hearings, doing stings in public bathrooms and arresting drug buyers in poor communities.
It's just pathetic.
Shame on those officers, everyone of them should be reprimanded, and relieved of duty. Shame on that student body for clapping when his mike was turned off, shame on Kerry for not speaking up and stopping this atrocity, and shame on the rest of us if we all don't stand up and help a fellow American who was simply exercising his civic right (nay duty!) of free speech and questioning authority.
Sarge ,
FU, if you can't hack your job don't do it pu55y,
Yeah this kid was acting like a d!ck, but the onus is on the pigs to handle the situation, not every civilian. I'm definatley not asking you pr!cks to protect me
Challenge a liberal and get tasered but what if he had been challenging President Bush, would the jack-booted Brown shirts tasered him?! I think not!
This story is going around the world right now. The most amazing to mee is that something like this happens in a country that prides itself on freedom of speech. I have seen blogs and comments in the news in other countries calling this facism.
From a reader in Norway
Hope I'm not the only one who appreciates the irony of John Kerry being used as a tool by the next generation of egocentric opportunists. I predict a political future for Mr. Meyer, but he may have to move to Massachusetts.
== Police enquirey ==
What a nice way to end an article, a police enquiry will take place to see if the taser use was warranted. Yeah, there will be an enquiry which will then be swept under the carpet and nothing will come of it.
This guy should sue the police. --[[User:Nzgabriel|Nzgabriel]] | [[User talk:Nzgabriel|Talk]] 04:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
:You know, he probably knew that they were going to arrest him for endangering the political processes and wanted to make a scene. He is an active protester you know. What are people thinking, thinking that they can just bust into congress or something and protest? A government can't function if their operations are stopped by protesters, which there are always at least a couple hundred of at any point in time. [[User:Contralya|Contralya]] 10:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Internationally Shocking
Regarding the recent incident in which Mr. Meyer was subdued and then tazered by police; I agree, that what occurred was ''excessive''. According to recent reports from the media, Mr. Myer is portrayed by friends and teachers as nonviolent, argumentative, and very opinionated. He was given one minute to ask Sen. John Kerry a question or two. Instead, he asked several questions for two minutes, until the police decided to execute a takedown, and remove Mr. Meyer's microphone. So far, no one can necessarily complain, because the police feared he might be a ''security threat''. Meyer then argued with the police, claiming he was within his rights to bombard Kerry with these questions. So, rather than actually ''escort'' Mr. Meyer out of the building, the police decided it would be brilliant to pull out a tazer gun, and tazer Meyer despite his vain protests.
The big problem with this situation is the use of the tazer. Had there been only one cop present to subdue Mr. Meyer, I believe that the cop would be within his rights to tazer Meyer, because one cop cannot control a 21 year old male student easily. However, there were at least 6 cops present who could have easily taken Mr. Meyer down uneventfully. Instead, they figured it would be best to zap the mild protester in front of international TV. Brilliant move, as I've said. Not only did they do this live, but they ignored the clear protests and pleadings not only from Mr. Meyer, but also from Sen. John Kerry. The phrase "Don't taze me, bro; Don't taze me!" was clearly heard from Meyer. Immediately afterward, we heard him yelling in pain as the police tazered him anyway. Not great "bro"s, huh?
For a couple of years now, we've been hearing of police using their tazers against unruly civilians. The military and law enforcement use these guns to prevent unnecessary shooting and death. Yet, instead of using these weapons as a second-to-last resort, police seem to frequently use them for any slight disturbance. I do not know if Meyer's actions there were right or wrong, but I do know that the police made the wrong move. Zapping someone in front of not only a live audience, but the entire world is really risky. Now, hundreds of thousands of people have not only viewed the whole scene, but have voiced their opinions because of it. Whether or not Meyer did this for his fifteen minutes of fame is irrelevant; because the police should know how to deal with these kinds of people, in such a situation; and frying them with the tazer isn't an option, especially in front of CNN.
So, maybe the next time a cop tazers someone, maybe even you, in front of the cameras, try yelling "Don't taze me in front of CNN, bro! You might get ''fired''!!" Perhaps ''that'' they won't ignore.
David Lewis
FL Keys
9/19/07
You people can't seriously think they cops were out of hand can you? This guy was obviously trying to cause a scene, even if he thought he shouldn't be arrested, he could have just walked outside with the police at the beginning and work the situation out. I'm sure they just wanted him to get out of the room, but when he turned violent and tried to get away, what other option did they have?
We question why today’s generation appears apathetic to world causes. Here is the reason. Big brother is trying to silence our “Freedom of Speech” I applaud Meyer’s passion. I find it ironic that he has the same name as the phenomenon John Meyer “Waiting for the World to Change”. Citizens of the United States, at the moment, we still have the capacity to advocate for what we believe in whether it is by voice, assembly or the written word. This is the fabric on which this country is crafted.
Why are they installing these huge billboards all along I-95 with a mans photo, and text repeating, "Long live big brother", over and over again?
This person pulled away from an officer. at that point he is resisting. how would you have handled this man if he started acting like this at your son or daughters graduation or wedding? maybe call the police? why are cops getting killed daily in our country? because criminals think they can do whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want. this is the same way liberals think!
Watching this video and as a law enforcement officer myself, I am disgraced with the actions of the officers. There is no need to taser this individual. This is a case of torture and those officers should be prosecuted, how they can argue that they have no other option but to use the taser is baffling.
Please watch the video and note the following, I belive this would be a good defence against the Police attitude and opinion:-
The male initially is lying on the floor on his back. A member of the audience yells, 'he has a taser on his chest, you are not going to use the taser, no'
(Kerry claims he did not know this was going on?? REALLY??!! Please we are not stupid!)
The officer holding the taser at this point does not make use of it. Instead a request is made that the male turn over, this he does without too much difficulty. Officers then attempt to apply the handcuffs to this male in the classic rear application method.
TRAINING GUYS!!! The male you are attempting to handcuff to the rear is not exactly the smallest of guys (if he was, which you may be trying to claim, then why use excessive force?) This persons build will mean that attempting to apply the handcuffs will be painful, the pressure on this persons shoulders and arms can be excruciating. Perhaps, taking a moments thought this would be obvious. But instead, let's us just use the taser because abusing the position which was entrusted to you is the better option.
I have no sympathy for you as officers.
What happened to first amendment rights? As a college professor I find the tasering of a student to be completely despicable. Politicians that come to a university or college campus should expect hard questions.
Kerry's comments as reported by the Associated Press "Whatever happened, the police had their reasons, had made their decisions that there was something they needed to do. Then it is a law enforcement issue - not mine." Let us not forget what happened to students at Kent State University.....
The George Bush administration is a disaster - but now we see what we could have expected from this man.
Each time that I see this tasering recounted in the media - I am sickened.
The US Constitution --
quote: "just a goddamned piece of paper." -- George W. Bush
Will you bleeding hearts give it a break. I have never heard anyone scream like that when tasered. Andrew Meyer was putting on a show pain and simple. He knew it would male people feel sorry for him and his cause. If yopu don't like what happened don't call the police next time your life is in danger.
disgusting
When Police tell you to leave, then LEAVE!! If you don't then I fully support their obligation to taser you, handcuff you, and beat the living snot out of you. Who in the Blue hell do you people think you are. Laws are to follow and a reasonable request from a peace officer should be complied with. If you don't then whatever happens to you is richly deserved.
Taser the sucker!!!
This is FASCISM. Andrew Meyer had broken no laws and what the cops did to him was FASCIST REPRESSION OF HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. And John Kerry, the cowardly hypocrite, did not speak out against what the cops were doing, did not demand that they stop. I no longer have any respect for John Kerry and I wish I hadn´t voted for him in the last presidential election. I hope Andrew Meyer sues and wins a million dollar lawsuit against those pigs and everybody else involved.
DEFEND DEMOCRACY!!
FIGHT FASCISM!!
If you don't like the FASCIST state we are in, I have a suggestion. Take a 2x4 turn it sideways and stick it right up your Liberal candy ass. I Proudly support our law enforcement officers over a pinko commi radical troublemaker anyday. Yeah he brike a law, he refused to follow a request from a law enforcemtn officer and he deserved every bolt of taser he got.
Now that I have put the ¨law and order¨ fascist goon-worshiping brains-up-his-(or her-butt twerp in his (or her, or maybe it´s a eunuch) place, I shall proceed to another very very important point.
Let´s think about the first question Andrew Meyer asked Kerry: ¨[Palast] said you won the 2004 election - isn’t that amazing?
There were multiple reports of disenfranchising of Black voters on the day of the election in 2004 in Florida and Ohio. … How could you concede the election on the day?”
I have been wondering the very same thing since the last presidential election. This is a very VERY important question.
Nobody, but NOBODY, other than Andrew Meyer, has EVER asked John Kerry that question. Nobody else at the forum that day, not CNN, not the Miami Herald, not the New York Times, not FOX News (of course not), nobody, nobody, nobody. People are saying that Andrew Meyer is a rude and obnoxious heckler. If that is true, then we REALLY REALLY NEED our obnoxious hecklers. We need to listen to them. We need to insist that the police leave them alone and not trample on their 1st amendment rights.
The well-paid polite and courteous journalists in this country won´t ask that question. ¨Law and order¨fascist goose-stepping eunuch is not interested in asking that question. Only ¨rude and obnoxious¨(but apparently a better journalist than everybody else in the USA) Andrew Meyer is willing to ask that question. And he got arrested for asking it.
!!DEFEND DEMOCRACY!!
!!DEFEND THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!
!!FIGHT FASCISM!!
The first amendment is not absolute. Once you are asked to leave by a sworn officer and you disobey you break the law. The idiot had a right to say what he wanted until he was ordered to stop. Anything after that got him what he richly deserved. On another note, the year is 2007... get over the 2000 and 2004 elections. Bush won it's history. Disenfranchising of Black voters...whah..whah.. you sound like a crying 3 month old child. We ARE a country of LAWS and those that break them deserve to be BROKEN. Have a great day.
"law and order"" eunuch,
Well, yes, there are limits to the first amendment. But you are waaaaäy too stupid to be the one to judge what those limits are.
For example, up until the time Andrew Meyer was pounced upon by the police, he had not gone beyond the limits of the first amendment rights, he had violated absolutely no laws whatsoever. You don't respect the law as much as you claim to because you don't care that the police violated his First Amendment rieghts.
Now, having examined the evidence, it looks pretty likely that the police lied in their police report. (You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you? I'm not going to explain the specifics. Do your own homework.) If the police have said lies in their report (and it sure looks that way) that goes beyond the limits of the First Amendment. The First Amendment is not absolute and if they police lie like that, they have broken the law. You don't care about that, do you?
I am amazed that somebody needs to explain basic democratic principles to you, you neanderthal goon. Listen up, a presidential election is not a sports event, it's not a baseball game or a boxing match. (It's a lot more important than that; it has much more serious social ramifications.) It is a DEMOCRATIC PROCESS and when millions of legitimate votes are not counted, then the democratic process has been abused and corrupted, and it means that the election is a fraud. Fraudulent elections are against the law. (But you don't care about or respect that law, do you? There are lots of laws you don't respect, you phony.)
And if you are going to refer to people objecting to the violation of the democratic process on which this country was based (I speak in the plural because I am definitely not the only one objecting), as crying 3 month old children, then I have a suggestion. Go ask one of your police friends to set his taser on high, and then you can suck on his taser.
My God!, look at what you said:
" Disenfranchising of Black voters...whah..whah.. you sound like a crying 3 month old child."
So you don't care about disenfranchising Black voters (it's against the law, schmuck).
You idiot, you fascist brains up your ass idiot. People like you are ruining this country.
Seriously, what you need to do is read the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Indepence. You need to study democracy. Didn't they teach you about democracy in school? Did your parents let you skip school all the time and let you stay home and watch cartoons (that's against the law, you know.)
Last point. I remember someone else who talked a lot about law and order. His name is Adolph Hitler. You and Adolph have a lot in common. Both of you pretend to respect the law but really you don't. The only law you want respected is "obey police officers at all times no matter how wrong or unreasonable they are." You have no problem with all other laws being trampled upon.
Go read a book, you moron.
!!DEFEND THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!
!!DEFEND DEMOCRACY!!
!!FIGHT FASCISM!!
Having looked at the video evidence, Little Andy was asked to leave, he resisted (Broken law #1) then he pushed and officer (Broken law #2) finally he attempted to escape (Broken law #3). Democratic principles and Anarchy (which you seem to prefer) are two totally different things. And yes, where there is real disenfranchising of black voters or any voters we should stand up and fight. However, not showing up without proper ID and being denied is not disenfranchisement it is irresponsibility on the voter. Trying to vote by a felon is not disenfranchisement, it is the penalty of breaking the law. It is obvious you have read books by Marx, Stalin and Lenin. However, If you compare my ideas to anyone please do so to a much more accomplished writer Machiavelli.
Have a great day
"law and order" eunuch,
You make me laugh. Who do you think you are fooling? I mean, really, do you think youre fooling anybody'
To quote a great songwriter; "I see through your game/ like I see through the water that runs down my drain."
You cite Machiavelli as your mentor and then you expect someone to believe you are sincere when you say "And yes, where there is real disenfranchising of black voters or any voters we should stand up and fight." Ýou don´t care about black voters being disenfranchised.
Then you mention a couple of sound-bite length excuses to justify the disenfranchisement of millions of voters.
The Republicans (like Florida Secretary of State Katherin Harris) drew up lists of thousands of voters, mostly Black, Hispanic and Indian, said they were felons and disqualified their votes. The fact that all or almost all (over 90%) of them had never committed a crime is something that I suppose you consider an unimportant triviality.
And you refer to the ID scam. All of a sudden they are asking some (not all) people for IDs. I was registered to vote at my Mom´s address, which is in an upper middle class, upper class neighborhood. Nobody asked me for my ID when I went to vote. But I guess you can trust white people with money. It´s all those Blacks, Himpanics, and Indians who are always scheming to vote under a false identity.
Don´t pretend you care about disenfranchised voters. You don´t. Don´t pretend you value democracy, the Declaration of Independence (which is a brilliant document, I encourage people to read it and re-read it and re-read it), the US COnstitution, and the Bill of Rights. You don´t.
Man when I tagged you phoney, I got you exactly right. You are phoney phoney phoney.
Truly, people like you are ruining the USA. We need citizens who value and study democracy.
By the way, you can´t get anything right, can you? When I said go read a book, I didn´t mean Machiavelli´s "The Prince". I´ll spell it out for you. Go read Walt Whitman´s "Democratic Vistas". (That´s a book that should be required reading in high schools throughout the United States.)
!!STUDY DEMOCRACY!!
!!DEFEND DEMOCRACY!!
!!FIGHT FASCISM!!
Walt Whitman..Yeah there is a lefty if I ever saw one. By the way as a Cuban-American Conservative Democrat who voted for Gore in 2000 but could not vote for Kerry in 2004 the problem with our party (Democrats) are wacko lefties that couldn't find the middle if it hit them in the face. The reality is that we MUST obey laws, all of them, not just the ones we agree with. The reality is, voters MUST take their ID's to the polling place not because they MIGHT be asked for it but because it is proper procedures, the reality is that FELONS SHOULD and MUST pay for their crimes. The reality is, we as democrats need to stop crying about all that the Republicans do and WIN an election then govern. The ONE thing I give credit to the Republicans for is that they DO what they say they are going to do. We voted many Democrats into congress and they have done -0- the big nada!! So maybe we should stop whining, start working, succeeding and obtaining the power instead of crying about it. As I encounter more left leaning individuals I find myself longing for the Bill Clinton days more and more. And to the original point, spoiled brats like Andy are a result of idealism gone wild.
Stand up for Truth!!
Stand up for Justice!!
Stand up for REAL AMERICAN VALUES!!
Ahh, Azul brings back memories. Did I touch a nerve? Why do Liberals get so touchy? I believe you might need some intervention to deal with those anger/emotional issues.
I want to thank you for assuring me that MY vote counts, in the end, that is the only thing that REALLY matters.
I will take my PhD, my six figure salary, my 401K and continue to live in my Incorporated community.
I only hope you get the Professional help you need to deal with those anger issues.
Fight for Justice!!
Fight for the American Way!!
Fight for Capitalism!!
Fight for Federalism!!!
Vote for Hillary!!
Have a Great Day!!!
Your memory of Azul... seems vague and distant, Azul... being Rubén Darío´s great anti-capitalist masterpiece.
Other than that, you nailed that guy good. Congratulations.
(I sure wish I had a PhD.)
!!Que viva Rubén Darío!!
!!Que viva Walt Whitman!!
!!Que viva José Martí!!
!!Que viva Pablo Neruda!!
You CAN have a PhD. It takes hard work, never giving up and never getting caught up in idealism. It took me 12 years but I finally did it.
Que viva Machiavelli!!
Que vuva Jose Marti!!
Que viva Cuba Libre!!
Que viva Law & Order!!
I´m sure the people of your incorporated community are generous, cultured and kind-hearted, ever-ready to give a poet a job grinding a music box in their garden.
I have a question. Don´t let me mis-interpret you. Your reccomendation is: DON´T be idealistic. Correct? It sure looks like that´s what you´re saying.
!!_______________________________!!
(Fill this space in with your own favorite slogan today!)
Realistic!!
If you work hard and don't accept excuses things will work out. Never let anything or anyone get in your way. The people are very protective also, as long as the poet has permission to be in the backyard, if he doesn't he might get shot or arrested for trespassing.
I thought I would leave that last posting unanswered a few days, because it speaks for itself. In your first posting here you started out with a 2 by 4. Now you have graduated to a gun. ¨Progress¨?
Anway, let me see if I have it all straight now. Your philosophy is:
!!Stand up for truth!!
!!Stand up for justice!!
!!Throw your ideals in the garbage bin!!
!!Shoot the poets!!
!!Arrest anyone who asks a question longer than a minute in length, especially if he says something our gun-toting PhD disagrees with!!
!!Read Machiavelli!!
(Shades of 1984 by George Orwell.)
You are welcome to correct any details I may have missed.
¨Un hombre que se conforma con obedecer a leyes injustas, y permite que pisen el país en que nació los hombres que se lo maltratan, no es un hombre honrado.¨ (José Martí)
!!Stand up for truth!!
!!Stand up for justice!!
!!Shoot the poets!!(trespassers)
!!Arrest anyone who asks a question longer than a minute in length, especially if he says something our gun-toting PhD disagrees with!!(Arrest anyone that behaves in a manner which disturbs a peaceful assembly and disobeys a lawful command from a law enforcement officer)
!!Read Machiavelli!!
I have clarified a few mistakes you seem to have overlooked or misunderstood.
Why the obsession with books and movies that have nothing to do with reality. (Orwell)
If you obey the laws (All of them, not just the ones you like, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about).
Well, isn´t that clarifying of you? These dialogues can be so enlightening.
So, in Rubén Darío´s story, when the poet come into the court of el Rey Burgues, asking for food and rambling on and on about ¨El ideal! El ideal!¨ , (for well over 60 seconds, no less), you think el Rey shouldn´t have given him the job cranking the music box. He should have just shot him. Right?
The Miami Herald had a webpage where you could vote on the incident with Andrew Meyer. They took it down for some strange reason. Before they did, 81% voted that the police were in the wrong. 19% agreed with our gun-toting PhD.
Walt Whitman, Rubén Darío, and José Martí (and Juan Montalvo) would have sided with Andrew Meyer, not you. And I don´t think you could change their minds by threatening them with a gun.
Did you defend your thesis with a gun as well?
Again, you brought up trespassing and I merely noted what can happen to trespassers. No one said that the police was completely correct in the matter. They could have handled the situation better, I will give you that. However, little Andy chose to not obey and suffered the consequences for his actions. Everyone makes a choice and we live with the consequences of those choices.
In regards to the Herald poll, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and some people are one.
Because something is unpopular it does not make it right or wrong.
I used knowledge and wisdom to defend thesis not idealism and rhetoric.
Now THAT is a bald-face lie on your part. (Interesting. So much for your claims to stand up for the truth.) I never brought up trespassing; I have never mentioned it before this posting. Search the blog. Try to prove me wrong. Try to find a quote.
You brought up trespassing as a distraction. Is that what ¨El rey burgués¨(the first story in Azul…, remember?) is about? Trespassing? You´re the only one who has talked about trespassing. You are a liar. You have clearly demonstrated it. Congratulations.
The poets use knowledge and wisdom. You use sophistry and guns (and 2x4s).
You live in Poet-land while I live in the "Real World". You are correct, I extrapolated the trespassing theme from your poets in the garden example. I am sorry you felt sooooooooooooo offended by it. My suggestion is that you go see your psychologist for your weekly session and get in touch with yourself.
In the "Real World" we have laws and we MUST obey them. In "poet-land" we can live idealistically ignoring "real-world" issues.
I hope you "wake-up" one day and join us in the "real-world".
OK, you advocate shooting poets, you´re a proven liar, and you think of yourself as qualified to advise as to who needs to see a psychologist. Can you spell ¨delusional¨, boys and girls?
(By the way, exactly how did you come up with the equation ¨poets = trespasers¨? How does that bit of algebra work?)
(You would think I would have something better to do on a Friday night than correspond with a psychopath from Florida. Don´t rub it in.)
Two wrongs don't make a right, three rights make a left.
I only gave you some advise on how to get help with your issues, I don't pretend to say what those issues are only you can get in touch with what holds you back.
"You can be the rap, but you can't beat the ride".
Two wrongs don't make a right, three rights make a left.
I only gave you some advise on how to get help with your issues, I don't pretend to say what those issues are only you can get in touch with what holds you back.
"You can be the rap, but you can't beat the ride".
Some friends came over to my house Friday night. They said I spend too much time lately on the internet. That’s what friends are for. My computer has been turned off altogether since then. Even this is sent from a friend’s computer.
So, anyway, DIDJA MISS ME, GUN-TOTING PSYCHOPATH? What are you gonna do when I move to Spain and don’t have time for this? I perused your last comment and I see you have descended into meaningless psycho-babble. It doesn´t merit a reply, so I´ll just brush it aside.
Keeping it real:
Anyway, just today someone brought to my attention a quote from an article from the Miami Herald (18 September 2007) by Travis Reed, which prompted me to write this blog again. ¨Steven Blank, head of Accent Speakers Bureau, the student organization that set up the speech, said they never asked police to escort Meyer out. ¨ This directly contradicts the police report. It appears you are not the only liar in Florida, Gun-toting Psychopath.
Gun-toting Psychopath says the law should be respected. I think that would be a great idea.
Of course, the police should respect the law like everybody else. Trampling on Andrew Meyer´s 1st Amendment rights and lying in their report are much more serious infractions than Andrew Meyer resisting a illegal arrest.
Like electoral laws, to cite another example. Thousands of voters have been disenfranchised in Florida. It would be a breath of fresh air if government officials in Florida would stop abusing those electoral laws.
Now, Gun-toting Psycho disagrees. He has said that no one has been illegally disenfranchised. But so what if he says that? He has proven himself to be a liar in this blog. He is a self-professed Machiavellian. He has no credibility whatsoever. He is not trustworthy. It doesn´t matter to Gun-toting Psycho whether what he says is a lie or is the truth, just so long as it works to his advantage and he thinks he can get away with it.
Gun-toting Psycho pays lip-service to things like truth, justice, Azul…., José Martí. But he doesn´t believe in any of that. What does he believe in? Guns and money, and not much else as far as I can tell.
OK, Gun-toting Psychopath, your turn. Spew your psychobabble.
(Maybe I will get lucky and he won’t reply. I prefer to think of him as simply fading into meaningless nothingness.)
Moving to Spain, Que bueno, that will mean one less person who doesn't follow True American Values,in this great country.
It doesn't matter WHO asked little Andy to leave, the bottom line is that he was TOLD by a Law Enforcement Officer to do so. At that point he disobeyed and BROKE the law.
Have fun in Spain, drink plenty of wine and have a great time. We REAL Americans will be here keeping our country safe and orderly.
Have a Great Day!!!
Hahahahaha!!!!
Police were right!! Little Andy was wrong!!!
Zap zap zap don't fight the POLICE!!
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